Posts by Blue Grass

114

Immortal Soul? Impossible!

by wannabe in

impossible!.

we notice, paul tells us that two things were handed down, to all mankind through the process of inheritance.

the reason being, if the soul was to be immortal, adam himself would have had to pass that on to mankind.

Blue Grass

Robdar says "Blue Grass, I am concerned that you might have a mistaken notion that Jews do not believe in an afterlife or that we regard Sheol as only a pit or grave."

I was reffering to the Jews as how their beliefs and pratices are recoreded in the Bible. It appears based on your wording that you believe you are a Jew but I would like to point out that the indivuals who died in the holocaust, invaded Palestine, and migrated to United States are Europeans and do not come from the middle east. Also in the Bible one would have to present genologicial records to prove he was a descendant of Jacob in order to be considered a jew. Even though you may praticed a form of modern Judaism you don't have any relation to the Jews in the Bible hence you have no special knowledge of the topic at hand as you tried to imply.

Leolaia can you share an example of a notion of an afterlife(not ressurection) in the OT?

P.S How do I quote people with that yellow box?

114

Immortal Soul? Impossible!

by wannabe in

impossible!.

we notice, paul tells us that two things were handed down, to all mankind through the process of inheritance.

the reason being, if the soul was to be immortal, adam himself would have had to pass that on to mankind.

Blue Grass

Mary says "I sincerely doubt I would. Sheol is accepted as a spirit world by numerous professionals who have spent years and decades studying ancient languages. Need a couple of examples?"

I'm not sure why you posted the first 3 examples as none of them state Sheol as being a prison for spirits as you claimed in an earlier post nor do they claim Sheol to be a place of consciousness. The last example you posted based on it's title appears to be a proganda piece promoting the idea of life after death.

Mary says "Sheol most certainly can mean "grave" or "pit", but as has already been demonstrated, it is also used in describing the afterlife throughout the scriptures."

Completely false! Where does the word Sheol ever mean afterlife in the Bible? The word Sheol is used 65 time in the Bible. Of the 65 times it's used, I would like for you to just show me ONE scripture in the entire Old Testament where the word Sheol in used in any other way other than the grave/pit. Sheol never met anything close to an afterlife nor is it ever used that way.

Mary Says "I did not take anything "out of context". I made mention of 1 Peter 3:19 as an example of the scriptural idea of life after death and that's it. There is no clear consensus amongst scholars or theologians as to who it's referring to. "

Are you kidding me? It says Jesus "preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built." You think these spirits are/were human? Why would only the people from Noah's day be in prison? Why not the people of Sodom and Gomorrah or the people of Abraham's day or Moses' day or King David's day etc.? Trying to rationalize the spirits who "sinned in Noah's day" as being former humans makes no sense. Especially when you consider that Angels(spirits) commited a sin in Noah's day that wasn't commited in anyone else's day and taht they ultimately went to a prison(Tartarus) for it.

Mary says "Another case of you misplaced smug attitude. Leolaia is by far, the most intelligent poster we have on here."

Well actually me and Leolaia are in agreement in the fact that the Book of Revelation wasn't written by John or any of Jesus' followes and that it doesn't harmonize with the rest of the Bible so I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make here.

114

Immortal Soul? Impossible!

by wannabe in

impossible!.

we notice, paul tells us that two things were handed down, to all mankind through the process of inheritance.

the reason being, if the soul was to be immortal, adam himself would have had to pass that on to mankind.

Blue Grass

Mary there are so many errors in your post but I don't have the time to correct them all. I'll just say a few things. Don't ever let a theologian or any serious bible student hear say Sheol is a prison for spirits, you will get laughed off the first of the earth. You are the first person I EVER heard make such a claim. ALL Jews, theologians, and most Christians agree that Sheol simply means grave. I also like how you take 1 Peter 3:19 out of context by not quoting the following verse "19through whomalso he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built." In Peter's next letter he makes it clear as to what spirits in Noah's days he was talking about. 2 Peter 4:"4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to Tartarus, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;" It's obvious you know very little about the Bible, such as the difference between Sheol and Tartarus, but I won't hold that against you because you don't believe in the Bible, it's those who applauded your post as if anything you said made sense who should be the ones who are ashamed of themselves because they know very little of the book they claim to live by.

114

Immortal Soul? Impossible!

by wannabe in

impossible!.

we notice, paul tells us that two things were handed down, to all mankind through the process of inheritance.

the reason being, if the soul was to be immortal, adam himself would have had to pass that on to mankind.

Blue Grass

Isaacaustin says "It goes back to God, while the soul goes to hell or heaven, awaiting a reuniting with body and spirit...or to the final destination of gehenna with the spirit remaining with Gid."

Wow! Where did you read all of that? Can you show what part of the Quran you got that from?

Leolaia says "Too bad that Revelation refers to the "souls" (Greek psukhés) of the dead in heaven (6:9-11)."

Most theologians and serious Bible student agree that the book of revelation isn't inspired but even assuming that it is one would just say it's using symbolic language there.

62

ONE! NO EQUAL!

by wannabe in

but he still wasn't finished, to my surprise, and i'd thought he was, with his last comment.

i thought!

Blue Grass

BurnTheShips says " I am grateful to Franz, his writings helped me leave. I think he is sincere and thoughtful. I think it took real courage and conviction to try to change things in the Watchtower, and he paid a high price for it. That said, I don't necessarily see everything the same way he does, and I am sure he would agree that I have freedom of conscience."

It sounds like you are confusing Fred Franz with Ray Franz.

62

ONE! NO EQUAL!

by wannabe in

but he still wasn't finished, to my surprise, and i'd thought he was, with his last comment.

i thought!

Blue Grass

I find it amusing that the 3 individuals(jonathan dough,isaacaustin, and BurhTheShips) who are zealously defending this ridiculous doctrine don't even agree with each other on the definition of the doctrine.

62

ONE! NO EQUAL!

by wannabe in

but he still wasn't finished, to my surprise, and i'd thought he was, with his last comment.

i thought!

Blue Grass

Isaacaustin you just contradicted yourself. According to the Jesus Yahweh is the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob who Jesus also said is his father. So you are saying the true God(Yahweh) manifested himself as the Son(Jesus), the holy spirit, and the Father(Yahweh). You're saying Yahweh manifested himself as Yahweh.

62

ONE! NO EQUAL!

by wannabe in

but he still wasn't finished, to my surprise, and i'd thought he was, with his last comment.

i thought!

Blue Grass

BurnTheShips says "The Bible isn't the Word of God...We have a Word of God, and it isn't a book. It is the living Christ. That's the true Word, not the Bible. The church that Christ founded and infused with the holy spirit is the body of Christ, even if scattered around the Earth and existing in a partial state of separation like it is today. We aren't a religion of a mute book, but a religion of the Living Word."

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

I have no idea where you got the idea of the Bible not being the word of God from or that it's a "mute book". Also I would like to know what is this church today that's infused with so much holy spirit that we should listen to them rather than the Bible.(Didn't Fred Franz say something like that before)

62

ONE! NO EQUAL!

by wannabe in

but he still wasn't finished, to my surprise, and i'd thought he was, with his last comment.

i thought!

Blue Grass

isaacaustin says "There is one true god, who is manifest in 3 persons. Those three persons operation is as one god due to their perfect unity."

Who is this one true God? If the father, son, and holy spirit are just manifestations, who is the God manifesting himself and does he have a name or does he ever speak in the Bible?

leavingWT says "It may seem like a huge bother, but those audio recording will actually make it very simple and memorable for you. They really helped me to deconstruct the WT strawman explanation. The speaker has designed this sermon with a JW audience specifically in mind. So, rather than trying to describe the doctrine to a non-believer, his explanation is catered to the person who currently has the WT view in mind."

LeavingWT I literally had 100s of discussions about of the trinity long before I talked to any witnesses so I can assure you that recording won't tell me anything I didn't already know.

62

ONE! NO EQUAL!

by wannabe in

but he still wasn't finished, to my surprise, and i'd thought he was, with his last comment.

i thought!

Blue Grass

Educate yourself, first, because you're putting your foot in your mouth. Read this for a detailed explanation.

http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html

How about showing me a detailed explanation from the Bible. My days of receiving doctrines from imperfect men rather than the Bible are over. Apparently you learned nothing from your experience as a JW.